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Talk:Andrew Ryan
Trivia and Speculation Okay I'm new so I may not be the best at discusing but Andrew Ryan I have to say dose bare a strange reseblense to Orson Welles and even sounds like him a bit. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 17:21, 2008 January 14. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :Is It just me or does Andrew ryan resemble Enoch Powell (old conservative politician). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 19:20, 2008 March 9. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! ::Andrew Ryan has a striking resemblance to Vincent Price. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 05:02, 2008 August 21. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! The Trivia section is entirely to long, and is mostly just peoples' random speculation about similarities. I suggest that the "trivia" be restricted only to things that the creators of BioShock have mentioned in press releases. Everything else, while certainly interesting, should be moved to the talk page where it belongs.--Gardimuer 23:35, November 1, 2009 (UTC) (These are speculations about similarities that were never stated by the developers of BioShock.) * His appearance is very similar to that of actor Vincent Price (especially on the Audio-Diary portrait) * His appearance and voice also evoke actor Orson Welles as he appeared in the film Citizen Kane, a movie that centers on a powerful press magnate who ultimately alienates everyone close to him due to his hubris and ego and finds himself alone and isolated in his decaying palace full of beautiful artworks. * Ryan's destroying Rapture is reminiscent from d'Anconia's, from Atlas Shrugged, worthless San Sebastian mine, in that the effort he put into it was considerably outweighed by the effort the 'Looters' put in to exploit it. Eg: while Ryan invested a sizable portion of his life in building Rapture it was only his life. Fontaine/Atlas invested not only his own life but also the lives of Jack, Jasmine, Langford, Wilkins and countless others in seizing control, and summarily got very little for their pains(Fontaine's capture of Rapture was short lived and ultimately ended with his death). * Also Ryan can be seen to resemble d'Anconia, 'as he is willing to compromise his principles to defeat the 'Looter' enemy which cannot be otherwise defeated. Perhaps he did have some grand plan to defeat Atlas and return victorious, perhaps his plan was Jack, a living metaphor for Ryan himself; he that was controlled by his foes into unspeakable acts, does himself defeat his foes by sheer resolve and will power. * By some interpretations of what he says he appears to be a hypocrite. However Objectivism as a whole justifies much of what he says and does. That not withstanding though, much of what he says and does towards the end, chronologically, contradicts what he says in the early days: **For example in his speech he states, "Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow." When Fontaine proves to be more businesses savvy, he orders him to be killed and nationalizes his company. This is, however, only after allowing Fontaine to amass his fortunes. It is only when Fontaine shows real threat of becoming a tyrant. As shown by his recordings in Arcadia; e.g. 'Offer a better product'. It is also with the complete knowledge that Fontaine is a 'Looter'(See ''Atlas Shrugged). **He also says, "Where the great would not be confined by the small." But almost immediately he begins making rules and regulations, which suit him best, allowing him to control the population of rapture. This spate of rules are, however, limited to only one rule 'No Contact with the Surface', which is later expanded into Smuggling and then into the war on Fontaine. But fundamentally Ryan is the 'greatest' because he built Rapture and he is not 'confined' by the 'small' because he does not take their views into consideration, as shown by 'Arresting Fontaine'. **Ryan even goes as far as charging admission for Arcadia and selling oxygen. Both of these are, however, perfectly acceptable parts of the Objectivist philosophy and, indeed, fit with his policy of burning his above-water forest rather than let "the rabble" "stand slack-jawed under the canopy and pretend that it was paradise earned." Additionally Arcadia, doubtlessly, took a great deal of investment on Ryan's part, and to merely provide it as a free service because it is required makes as much sense as providing free electricity when it costs you money to buy the coal to burn. **Furthermore he states "No Gods or Kings only Man," and in his speech "Where the scientist would not be constrained by petty morality," yet he expresses shock, when he discovers Jasmine Jolene sold his son's embryo. This manifests a murderous rage and he beats her to death with a pipe. Though this could just as easily be seen as betraying him, selling out his 'property'. Additionally petty morality is morality which stands in the way of progress, not morality in general. As McDonagh, Sullivan and Tenenbaum show morality is not something to be abandoned but an integral part of Objectivism; it defines what takes you forward and what holds you back; i.e. Selling your child, your ticket to immortality, will definitely hold you back. **He says "Where the artist would not fear the censor," but orders Sullivan to assassinate Anna Culpepper after she insulted Sander Cohen by releasing her song, "Ryan's Songbird". **He also claims to have made Rapture a place where "The great would not be confined by the small." Yet he fanatically tries to remain in power doing things from placing a bounty on Jack's head, to sending hordes of splicers after him to even gassing Julie Langford and even trying to suffocate Jack by destroying Arcadia. Finally, he went so far as to try to blow Rapture up to prevent Atlas from seizing control. Though it could be argued that placing a bounty on Jack's head was simply pest control, preventing the 'CIA' or 'KGB' 'Looters' from invading Rapture. Additionally, Arcadia and Rapture are both, fundamentally, his; to do with what he wishes. If he so chooses to throw his entire oxygen producing capacity, and later the entire city, behind destroying a single rogue operator then that is his choice. Choice being the very foundation of Objectivism. * Despite Ryan's idea that "men are entitled to the sweat on his brow" he contradicts himself by killing Professor Julie Langford for perfecting the Lazarus Vector Formula. There is a possibility that Ryan could be sexist. However, there was never any history of civil rights movements in Rapture prior to the Civil War. ::I moved the preceding trivia point about possible sexism to the talk page because Ryan (in his own view) wasn't really being a hypocrite. He said in his own speech to Langford right before she died that he owned her research laboratory, so technically he also owned anything she produced, including the trees in Arcadia and the Lazarus Vector. He thinks that Arcadia is the "sweat of his brow" and that he is entitled to the profit of anything in it. He actually read off part of the contract to her while the poison filled her room. His killing of Langford isn't sexist; it was pretty much the same as when Ryan killed McDonagh for betraying him. ~'Gardimuer' [[User talk:Gardimuer|{ ʈalk }]] 00:12, April 28, 2010 (UTC) Andrew Ryan: Ex Soviet? Is Andrew Ryan really a ex-Soviet? I thought the reason he started Rapture was because the US Gov't wanted to turn his park into a national forest? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 02:19, 2007 September 1. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :I think so too... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 04:23, 2007 September 4. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! ::Andrew Ryan is an ex soviet. Go to the BioShock home page and read the section called characters, you'll find that he came to the US during WWII. You're also right about the forst thing, but I can't verify that it was American soil that the forest was on because I haven't looked into it. He tells you about it in Arcadia, you can read the diary log about it (yes the game keeps a log of all com messages and audio diaries you've had). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 05:16, 2007 September 4. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :::Also, in the Working Late Again audio diary, he refers to himself as Andrei, the Russian version of Andrew. --Klivian 13:17, 4 September 2007 (UTC ::::I'm rather confused. The article says he left the Soviet Union in 1919, two years before the end of the Russian Civil War and the creation of the USSR. That's kind of impossible. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 20:34, 2009 January 11. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! Voice Actor Who is the voice actor for Andrew Ryan? And I think we should start listing these for current articles. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 19:15, 2008 January 20. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! A number of points on Ryan Yes, Ryan is supposed to be a former citizen of the Soviet Union, having fled for the United States in 1919 (he says as much in one of the public address announcements, when he describes his history). "Ryan" is thus not likely to be his original last name. He later became disenchanted with the US Government as well (including the forest incident as one example). The name "Andrew Ryan" is a play on Ayn Rand, the author and philosopher whose work inspired much of the story of Bioshock. Rand also came to the United States as a refugee from the Soviet Union in real life, changed her name, and was also later a critic of a number of political policies and social trends in the mid-20th century United States as well. Much of the philosophy Ryan expounds is based on Rand's philosophy of Objectivism. The voice actor for Ryan is Armin Shimerman, a very talented Hollywood character actor probably best known for his work in several Star Trek series and the Buffy The Vampire Slayer TV show. Ryan's appearance rather reminded me of Howard Hughes, maybe around the late 1940s or early 1950s: the very model of a brilliant and visionary, but extremely unbalanced, titan of industry and science (who also was known for many dalliances with young and famous women, fought multiple conflicts with the US government, fled the United States, and died in deluded, self-imposed exile). Ken Levine explicitly described Ryan as "Howard Hughes and Ayn Rand together". The similarity with Orson Welles also recalls Welles' writing and portrayal of Charles Foster Kane in Citizen Kane, a thin guise of the real-life publishing magnate William Randolph Hearst. 12:16, 13 July 2008 (UTC) Is He Really Dead? Seeing as it is possible to turn on the vita chamber after he dies, wouldn't that revive him? Or do you have to die while it was turned on for it to revive you, this was never really explained, so can we be certain that he really IS dead? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 16:37, 2008 July 23. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :Since Ryan died while the chamber was off, I would say, yes. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 05:01, 2008 August 21. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! ::I like to think that after Jack gets the Key to the City, he would use the Vita-CHamber to revive Ryan. He would then keep him tied up in a wheelchair and feed him through a tube against his will. Jack would mash up Ryans food and change his diapers every day. And at every possible opportunity remind Ryan how he has enough of a burden feeding ≈20 children/holding the world hostage with a soviet nuke. But even though Ryan does not contribute in any way what so ever, so he would be forced to sit in agony as he is a parasite but can do nothing about it. ::–any comments? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 01:34, 2008 September 24. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :::However, it should be noted that, if you are killed in Rapture's Control Room, the Vita-Chamber is automaticly, so Ryan would have been revived by the reactivated chamber. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 20:03, 2009 November 4. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! why are his audio diaries just hanging around? Seriously, they are never placed in a particular spot, they're just around. During Rapture's prime, would Ryan just wander the various districts, reciting his philosophies into his recorder, then like, look around to see no one is looking, then toss the cassette behind a trash can or in the shelf of an empty market stall, sorry for this abhorrent run on sentence. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 1:26, 2008 September 24. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :There are likely two different reasons: If 2K left all of his diaries stashed in a closet in Rapture Central Control, it would be sort of anticlimactic, and you would barely get to know him in the first half of the game. OR, the place where he kept his diaries was ransacked and therefore his diaries became scattered all over Rapture. I rather believe it's the former, to preserve game atmosphere. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 01:38, 2008 September 24. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! Another possibility on Ryan's motivations for death? Is it possible that Ryan chose to die at the hands of Jack, believing other assassins would be sent? Since Jack cleared the path to Ryan's office, the door would seem to be open for Fontaine to send splicers after Ryan. Perhaps, knowing this, Ryan chose to die in a calculated attempt to free Jack, or set him against Atlas/Fontaine? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 10:47, 2009 March 23. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :It could also be that what he continuously repeated while dying, "A man chooses, a slave obeys." was a motif for it. Of course not as the only reason for his suicide, but as one of them, that he was epmhasizing this point. Also possible that since he was a man of strict morals and ideals, yet he had allowed some of the to become corrupt he wanted to hold onto the ones he had not betrayed, that is the one relating to the quote mentioned above. This is just speculation though... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 09:46, 2009 June 24. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! Ryan and Atlas The article states that, "Although Frank Fontaine set Jack on his journey to kill Ryan using the would you kindly trigger phrase, Ryan knew exactly what was occurring." With this I tend to disagree. I feel as if Ryan did not figure out what was going on until Jack was halfway to knocking out the power on his mag locks on his office door. Ryan informs Jack over the radio that there is a feeling of nostalgia that Jack is experiencing (this one of the earlier indications of Ryan becoming aware that Jack is his son). Even moments before his death Ryan states, "You hear me, Atlas?! Andrew Ryan offers you nothing but ashes!" I do not think that Ryan ever figured out that Atlas and Fontaine were the same person. I know, he knew Fontaine had purchased Jack's embryo, and that Atlas had control over Jack. But I do not think Ryan ever realized they were the same person. Any thoughts? --Atlas the Fisherman 22:04, 10 June 2009 (UTC) :Another thing to note is that he did not initially release that the intruder was his son- your first encounter with him, the first time he speaks with you directly, he interrogates you about what foreign intelligence agency sent you- "which one of the bitches sent you? CIA? KGB?" (paraphrase, don't remember the exact wording). As for the "You hear me, Atlas?!" line, I think it's entirely possible he meant it mockingly- if you changed it to "You hear me, 'Atlas'?!", the meaning changes significantly. I think perhaps he was aware of Atlas's true identity, and scorned him for not being man enough to face him openly. 20:52, 2 July 2009 (UTC) ::Actually Ryan KNEW the whole time that Jack was his son since he step into Rapture because the sercurity system didn't tear him a new asshole the first time he saw a turret —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 00:12, 2009 July 6. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :::This is the whole story with Jack,Andrew,Atlas,and Fontaine.Andrew Ryan impregnated a showgirl(hooker,stripper,I don't know what they're called)named Jasmine Jolene,Ryan was unaware of this so Jasmine had the embryo(Jack)removed and sold it to Fontaine.Suchong,Fontaine,and Tenenbaum genetically alter and brainwash the embryo to jump when anyone says,"Would you kindly".Ryan found out about this and killed Jasmine,before the boss fight with Fontaine he mentions sending Jack up in a sub,so apparently Jack was sent up,and brang back down in order to,"Go to Ryan's office and kill the son of a bitch",in other words assassinate the now somewhat insane Andrew.I think that Ryan always knew somewhere in the back of his mind that Jack was his son,or related to him.Know it was possible that Andrew had no clue because Jack could have easily hacked the security tech just as the splicers have,I doubt Ryan knew that Atlas was actually Fontaine,maybe towards his death Andrew realized that Jack could be his son and Atlas was Fontaine. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 21:08, 2009 August 26. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! Sources for some of the paragraphs. What is the source for all that stuff in his article about him being the "youngest billionaire in the country," and when he was born, etc...? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 17:17, 2009 June 23. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :Unfortunately, I have no idea. I really wish people would source things more often... -[[User:Stigma-231|§'tigma-231']] ♠powerful phrase {τalk}{ } 17:19, 23 June 2009 (UTC) ::I don't recall hearing or reading anything like that in the game, so besides that i don't think there is anything "canon" from the game. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 19:53, 2009 June 23. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :::I think the bio stuff (i.e. early life) should be wiped until the whole thing and be sourced properly! Its uncanon! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 20:16, 2009 July 24. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! ::::Ok. Here's the ultimatum. Either somebody finds a source for all the fanon early life information or it will be removed in one week. ~'Gardimuer' [[User talk:Gardimuer|{ ʈalk }]] 21:06, December 27, 2009 (UTC) possible trivia? If you lose the "E" and the "W" in "Andrew Ryan" it becomes a perfect anagram of "Ayn Rand". Perhaps worthwhile to add to the article? 07:28, 30 June 2009 (UTC) :NOPE —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 00:13, 2009 July 6. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! Information from SITS I suggest that information regarding the building of Rapture and Andrew Ryan's various companies be added here from the Something In The Sea website.--Gardimuer 04:44, October 16, 2009 (UTC) :I agree; it shows how some of the city was built. Ryan was a business partner of Lutwidge's and used steel from Scarlet Sovereign to build part of Rapture! Where should we include this? Before Bioshock, yeah? --Epstein CoR 19:55, December 27, 2009 (UTC)Epstein CoR ::I went ahead and added it to the "History" section in the paragraph that begins: "Ryan's response was to use his entire fortune to build Rapture" ~'Gardimuer' [[User talk:Gardimuer|{ ʈalk }]] 20:23, December 27, 2009 (UTC) Death :(The following was moved to the talk page by Freezing Mike, 00:16, 2010 January 4) It is possible that Andrew Ryan had himself killed because he lacked the courage to live in a world not under his own control, and instead chooses permanent death. This is ironic because Ryan, who never hesitated to murder others for his own ends, cannot find the fortitude to commit the final act himself, instead relying upon Jack to do it for him. It is also possible that Andrew Ryan saw this as his only chance to be a father to his son; to teach him to be a man, not a slave. He orders Jack to kill him to demonstrate that only a man can choose his own destiny. If Jack was truly a man, he would not be controlled and the conditioning could be broken. Likewise, the deactivated Vita-Chamber shows Jack that if Ryan could not break the conditioning, then he would rather die than live as a slave to Atlas's whims. If this is the case, he succeeded; Jack immediately sets out to free himself from Atlas' control, and ultimately avenges his father by slaying Fontaine. Bioshock 2?? Hmm, I really wonder if he's going to appear in Bioshock 2. Hope he's still alive. Plus, I noticed his Bioshock 2 portrait looks older than his Bioshock 1 portrait. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 11:09, 2010 January 16. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :His portrait in Bioshock 1 was clearly an old photo (circa 1946 maybe???). Ryan was 68 in Bioshock 1, but his portrait looked nowhere near that age. However, in Bioshock 2, it looks like they used a more updated portrait, probably from the late 50's, so he looks older. Or, an even simpler explanation is that they simply felt they needed to redesign the portrait. Either way, Ryan's dead. Ant423 17:12, January 16, 2010 (UTC)Ant423 ::What confuses me though is that his hair's thicker and somehow younger-looking in his Bioshock 2 portrait than in his Bioshock 1. Yet, he looks older there than in his Bioshock 1 portrait. Hmm.... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 09:24, 2010 February 3. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! what if subject delta = andrew ryan, who put himself in storage for ten years or so to survive from the upcoming civil war, and the obvious destruction of rapture. he could have sent an imposter to play him while he was gone and then come back as in the all life maintaining, subject delta, who he puts off, but goes online for somewhat ten years later ( his mind could erase). it could be also possible that sofia lamb was secretly so in love with ryan that they for everybodys surprise got a undesired child, eleanor that ryan rejected and thats why lamb went crazy and wanted to kill the man who he once loved. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 16:23, 2010 February 3. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :I highly doubt that Ant423 22:33, February 3, 2010 (UTC)Ant423 ::believe me, RYAN is NOT DEAD. and haven't you thought the relationship between FONTAINE and LAMB, two arch enemies of ryan? there is (was) something going on between these two and ryan... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 14:05, 2010 February 6. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! Possible Revival? Could it be possible (in theory) for Andrew to be revived if someone could find his body? Because Eleanor was able to revive Delta after 12 years with just some DNA. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 07:07, 2010 February 11. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! There's no reference Where does it say the atomic bomb on hiroshima was the "last straw" for him? There's no reference and i looked through his audio diaries and found nothing about it. it must be in some radio message, but where?Prof.HubertFransworth 19:06, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :What about loading screen quotes, and information not yet listed on this wiki? I feel I remember him talking about the bomb and all that... feeling it was a sign of the surface being bad or something. ~''Ṃᶒɠą§ɔîéɳčę' [[User talk:MegaScience|{ '''talk }]]'' 19:50, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::I checked the Public Service announcements. It seems that there was no specific event that caused Ryan to decide to build Rapture, though his hatred of social programs during the Great Depression seems to have been a major deciding factor. One would think it was Hiroshima since Rapture was built the year after, but that's speculation at best. I honestly think that line should be removed. ::On a side note, are you sure you're not getting mixed up with Julie Langford? Her in-game history states that she did work in Japan during WWII, so maybe that has something to do with it? But anyways, read the announcements. Rapture's construction sounds more like a spur of the moment thing. Ant423 20:51, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :::I think the part about him being influenced by Hiroshima may have come from an early interview with Ken Levine. ~'Gardimuer' [[User talk:Gardimuer|{ ʈalk }]] 22:01, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::::In that case the interview should be cited. Don't know where to find it though. Ant423 03:02, May 27, 2010 (UTC) :::::I checked and it's not in the announcments or any place where i can find it. i think it should be removed too, along with 2 facts: about frank fontaine and atlas being his arch enemies and him not figuring out because they had different ideology, different methods and most of all, fontaine was said to be dead. and the second is about the unique models, i may be wrong here but i think Frank Fontaine(boss form) has a different model and so does dr. Tenenbaum and Julie Langford and maybe more.Prof.HubertFransworth 23:38, May 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::::As Gardimuer said, the fact was said in a interview. Fontaine and Atlas were probably enemies to keep Ryan more off his trail. Fontaine's boss form obviously is its own model, although all the other characters are recycled. Just different textures. Steinman was a retextured Grossman, Tenenbaum was a retextured Lady Smith, Atlas (as he appeared to Jack) is a retextured Toasty, etc. By 'retextured', I mean that it is the EXACT same model, but with different colors/clothing/however-you'll-understand-it. ~''Ṃᶒɠą§ɔîéɳčę' [[User talk:MegaScience|{ '''talk }]]'' 00:18, May 29, 2010 (UTC) :::::::No no, I said it may be from an interview. If we can't find a source for the Hiroshima connection just remove it. ~'Gardimuer' [[User talk:Gardimuer|{ ʈalk }]] 03:45, May 29, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::No, Gardimuer, I remember it vaguely too. That's why I was agreeing and such. I wish I kept track of interviews, but I feel it was in one too. ~''Ṃᶒɠą§ɔîéɳčę' [[User talk:MegaScience|{ '''talk }]]'' 03:54, May 29, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::I found it!! Well, I don't know if this is the exact interview you're talking about but Ken Levine seems to suggest that the bomb inspired Ryan to build Rapture. Ant423 03:57, May 29, 2010 (UTC) :::::::::Wow, Ant, wtf. I JUST got that interview no more than 10 minutes ago. I was waiting for Gardimuer to cite it and such. Here's the conversation proof I have: :~''Ṃᶒɠą§ɔîéɳčę' [[User talk:MegaScience|{ '''talk }]]'' 04:20, May 29, 2010 (UTC) : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :That's great. I guess we finally have our citation. Interesting site, too. Ant423 04:37, May 29, 2010 (UTC) : : ::::: :: :: : Relationship Who was Ryan in a serious relationship with, Diane McClintock or Jasmine Jolene? Diane calls herself "Ryan's Mistress" but she went with him on vacation to Adonis which seems like girl friend stuff, but Jolene's posters say she's "Ryan's favorite gal". Was it first one then the other, both at once, or what? I feel dumb, somebody help me out.MarcoDelMarco 04:55, June 25, 2010 (UTC)